How Can You Be Interested in Reality?

Q: I've been reading the writings on your website. They've been a great inspiration to me throughout the last few months. However, I find that I am still regularly sucked into delusive thoughts - e.g. anxiety and depression.

I suspect you will ask something like, "Does it matter that you experience anxiety and depression?"

I too have asked myself this, and I too have realized that happiness and unhappiness are inherently meaningless – only the mind assigns them arbitrary meaning.

A: Right. Unhappiness is inherently meaningless, as you say.

But if you only partly believe that, and still feel that unhappiness affects you in some way, keep after it. Keep looking and keep uprooting it. Keep asking the same questions when you think of it, all day long: When you have an anxious or depressed thought, and you have in mind something you need to get in order to get rid of that anxious or depressed thought, look at what will happen when you “get” that thing, and see what you imagine will change.

When you just look closely at these troubling thoughts, and see where they lead, eventually it sinks in that nothing changes. Nothing in your thoughts does anything but produce more thoughts! Amazing! So the problems you want to remedy are never remedied. It all just hits a wall. And what’s left? What is there?

You are always left with just “you,” whatever that is, and this moment of awareness, which is crystal clear and empty of all content. So, here you are. An uncomfortable thought leads to a “fixing” thought, leads to a temporarily hopeful thought, leads to a “trying” thought, leads to a happy thought, leads to a worry thought, leads to another “fixing” thought, and around and around it goes, and all the while, you are here. The consciousness with which this is seen is crystal clear. It could not BE more crystal clear. It is undisturbed. It is unchanged, unmoved. It is peace. This is you. This is always you, always here. You cannot be abandoned by yourself or the world because you are always here, clear and unmoving.

Let me know how it goes.

Q: Perhaps you could verify my findings?

If the thought arises, "I am suffering," who suffers?
Can a thought suffer? No, because a thought is just a thought. Thoughts cannot feel, see, hear, or suffer.
But "I am suffering" is just a thought - So who suffers?
Can "I" suffer?
But "I" is a thought, too. So how can "I" suffer?
Awareness cannot suffer either. So who suffers? No one.

In our personal stories, there are many characters. Some characters appear happy; others appear sad. But these characters are actually merely thoughts. So how can they be happy or sad? They only appear happy or sad.

Personal stories are like puppet shows or novels. The characters give the appearance of awareness. But actually, they are not aware. They are either thoughts (personal stories), or puppets (puppet shows), or words (novels).

All of reality is like a puppet show. Nothing is aware, except awareness. Phenomena merely reflect the awareness of awareness.

If the thought appears, "I have a problem," then who has a problem?
"I" cannot have a problem, because it is merely a thought. How can a thought have a problem?

Thoughts cannot grasp reality. Thoughts cannot grasp anything. Thoughts cannot feel, see, hear, or grasp.

Annette, these are my findings so far. Am I right?

A: And if your findings are right, what do you have?

Whether your findings are validated or not, is it all seen with crystal clear consciousness?

Q: If my findings are right, then they too are just thoughts.

Whether my findings are validated or not, they are once again more thoughts. They may be seen with crystal clear consciousness, although I feel that I'm borrowing words from other people. Personally, I think that crystal-clear consciousness is just another thought.

Annette, I feel very frustrated. I feel that I'm on the right track, but thoughts don't lead anywhere. It's always just more thoughts.

Furthermore, I'm dealing with anxiety and depression. And of course, the idea of anxiety is a thought in the first place. The idea that anxiety should be more tolerable is also another thought. It's always more thought, whatever I do.

A: What do you want?

Q: What do I want? From the perspective of phenomena, I could name a list of things I want - most notably, to change certain aspects of the past.

Having investigated along the line you suggested, I realized that all problems are thoughts. For instance, a thought labels something as "anxiety," then another thought labels anxiety as undesirable, and then another thought tries to find a way out of anxiety. So it is always thoughts.

Also, how can "I" want anything? It's just a thought. Thoughts cannot want things. There's only the appearance of wanting things.

That being said, I'm suffering from an unbearable desire to escape from this reality, as well as an unbearable sense of anxiety, guilt, regret, etc.

So yes, upon investigation, it is realized that there is ultimately no problem. All problems are mental. Bad feelings are labeled as undesirable. The mind wants to escape from bad feelings, creating a whole series of problems.

Let's just say that investigation is not doing it for me. I continue to suffer from bad feelings and wanting to escape from them. And I know this too is a story. But the truth is that I believe in the story.

And I keep thinking, "This is it! This is all there is! This moment, this 'now' - There is nothing more than this!" But my mind doesn't realize this, and then I think, "Of course, the mind can't realize this - The mind cannot grasp reality."

Annette, I realize that I'm off on a tangent here. All I can say is - from an intellectual perspective, I understand that all my wants are meaningless. I understand that it is merely one thought leading to another thought. But it's not doing it for me. And I know you will say that "doing it for me" implies that I want to escape from bad
feelings, which shows that my mind is creating a problem for myself.

So I don't quite know what I should do anymore. Please tell me what to do or what to investigate.

A: Why do you think I don't have anxiety and I am not bothered by anything?

Q: You are not bothered by anything because your mind has discovered its problems to be non-existent. Therefore, the mind's compulsive grasping for solutions has ceased.

I have investigated the mind to the conclusion that, yes, the mind's problems are non-existent. However, my mind continues to grasp after solutions compulsively. It's to such a point that I don't know what my "problems" are anymore. I only know that there are "problems." And yes, I know that my problems are just thoughts and therefore non-existent. But the compulsive grasping makes me very anxious all
the time.

A: You said your mind continues to grasp after solutions compulsively. Why do you think my mind does not continue to grasp after solutions compulsively? What made mine stop?

Q: I believe (but I don't know) that your mind stopped grasping after solutions when it realized that it was the problem in the first place.

E.g. The thought, "I suffer," is the problem in the first place. And then you realized that "I suffer" is just a thought, and that a thought cannot suffer, and that "I" cannot suffer. And then after realizing this, your mind stopped compulsively seeking solutions.

This is my intellectual understanding thus far. Why does my mind continue to grasp after solutions?

Maybe compulsively grasping after solutions is also just a story?

But I feel I haven't reached the end yet. But maybe not having reached the end is also just a story?

But what if I get swept away by negative thoughts as soon as I get up? Maybe that too is a story? Furthermore, what's wrong with negative thoughts?

I still feel that there's a problem. Maybe this is a story. Yes, but I still feel that there's a problem.

A: >Maybe compulsively grasping after solutions is also just a story?

Yes!

>But I feel I haven't reached the end yet. But maybe not having reached the end is also just a story?

Yes!

>But what if I get swept away by negative thoughts as soon as I get up? Maybe that too is a story?

Yes!

>Furthermore, what's wrong with negative thoughts?

Right!

>I still feel that there's a problem. Maybe this is a story.

Yes!

>Yes, but I still feel that there's a problem.

If you were to suddenly feel that there were no problem, would that be story, too?

Q: Yes, if there were suddenly no problem, that too would be a story.

And then now I realize - the end of seeking, that too is a story.

So right now, my mind is at a place where it can't think of any new problems.

Right now, I feel subjectively a sense of clarity. Yet I feel some anxiety looming in the distance. For the past few weeks, both day and night were sometimes hard to get through. I think the real test is when depression and anxiety strike again (or don't).

Or maybe that's not the real test?

A: >I feel some anxiety looming in the distance.

Story about an imaginary future that does not exist now.

>For the past few weeks, both day and night were sometimes hard to get through.

Story about a remembered past that does not exist now.

>I think the real test is when depression and anxiety strike again (or don't).

Story about an imaginary future that does not exist now.

>Or maybe that's not the real test?

Story about an imaginary future that does not exist now.

Q: From the perspective of relative reality, I spent an okay night. After waking up today, I read your email. Then, I realized that:

Realization is a concept.
The end of the story is a concept.
The end of seeking is a concept.
The energy of seeking is a concept.
Seeking is a concept.
Troublefree is a concept.
Carefree is a concept.

I tried to come up with new problems. At the moment at least, I cannot come up with new problems.

What should I do now?

A: Yes, it’s impossible to come up with new problems. That’s it. Good job.

You ask, What should you do now? Is that really a question? What do you always do? Do whatever you do, but without the mental overlay of mind-created problems. That’s freedom.

Q: My understanding - whatever that understanding means - has settled down since yesterday. I reread some non-dual texts, but they don't resonate with me at all. (I mean no disrespect to the authors. The problem clearly lies with me.)

What is consciousness anyway? For me, consciousness is just a word. In the same way, awareness means nothing to me. Awareness is just a word.

I don't see consciousness at all. Consciousness is just a word. But suppose there were consciousness. Non-dual texts generally assume that consciousness is always there. If consciousness is always there, then the hypothetical scenario where consciousness is missing is only speculation. Also, consciousness is never separate from form. So a hypothetical scenario where consciousness is separate from form is only speculation.

So if someone says, "Consciousness is all there is," I have to say, "I have no idea what consciousness is. Does something exist? Does nothing exist? I don't know."

Adyashanti says he is interested now only in truth, not in delusive thoughts. I don't understand this at all. When I first read this a while ago, I thought there was this thing called truth, and I have to be interested in it. However, now I see that there is no such thing as truth. It is always the truth. It is always reality. How can you be interested in reality? How can you be interested in consciousness? What does that even mean?

Furthermore, there is no such thing as a delusive thought. Or rather, all thoughts are delusive thoughts. To say "delusive thoughts" implies that there are non-delusive thoughts. In reality, there are no such thing as "non-delusive thoughts."

So what if there are delusive thoughts? The key is to see that delusive thoughts don't matter at all.

Do you agree with what I'm saying?

A: Yep.