Even “Problem” is a Thought

Q: I have been on the so-called spiritual search for many years, and over the past couple of years have stumbled onto non-duality. There have been some insights looking at the obvious presence of awareness: seeing that the idea of "Sean" can only be a thought, and is just a belief, was pretty intense – I sort of felt like a zombie for a couple of days, but that passed, of course.

There is a clear intellectual understanding of all this – yet what attracts me to your writing is that you seem to discard all the spiritual or enlightenment jargon and just stick with the results or practical matter of finding and living in peace.

If I just stick with the non-duality teaching, it is clear that the awareness is there and never changes, all the while the thoughts about this or that really don't change the awareness. It is equally clear, intellectually, that thoughts provide the idea of separation. If these assumptions based in thought weren't there, there would be no idea of separation, sort of like the baby who hasn't yet learned these ideas.

Yet there is still some suffering, the idea of "Sean" is still there, like a subtle undercurrent of assumption which asserts itself constantly in the interactions throughout the day. There is immensely more peace and ease, yet the suffering still pops up, anger, etc.

I wonder if you can comment on this and maybe point out what is being missed.

Thank you sincerely for your time.

A: So it sounds like things are pretty good. Let’s look at the only thing you said that sounds like you still have some dissatisfaction, and that would be, “the suffering still pops up, anger, etc.”

Is it a problem? If this were not a problem, then there would be no problem, right? So, look and see if it is really a problem that anger pops up.

What is the problem if anger pops up? Is it really a problem? What does it do? What does it affect? What is the outcome, when anger pops up? Does anger pass? Is anything permanent about it?

See if you can just answer these questions. It may lead to some new ones. 

Q: Thank you for your response and taking the time to help. The anger is only a problem if subsequent thoughts arise about it and say it's a problem. The only problem really is generated by thought. That's clear. It seems that, when anger or fear happen, there is a sensation and a mental anguish or a loss of peace.

Yes, the anger and fear always pass but the fear for the welfare of close loved ones remains sort of like an undercurrent that seems always present. And even these results are thoughts, too. Thoughts happening about thoughts, thoughts rejecting thoughts, thoughts preferring thoughts. The whole thing is made of thought, it seems. And it is clear that the one-who-thinks is also a creation of thoughts.

I won't venture any other comments but will try to answer your questions directly. Thank you again for your time and response.

A: Thanks, I appreciate your tracking with me.

I love the way you put it – “thoughts happening about thoughts, thoughts rejecting thoughts, thoughts preferring thoughts.”

You’ve got it, but I take it you’re not totally satisfied. You still feel that certain thoughts that arise – anger, fears about the welfare of your loved ones, etc. – are a problem in some way. Let’s see if we can find out if they really are.

Right here, right now, there is no problem. You can verify this in your own experience right now. Is there a problem? Before you say “But...” or “When I think about...”, is there a problem now? Right here right now, there is no problem. You can’t find a problem unless you move to thought.

Do you sense this? It makes you take a deep breath and sigh. It’s peaceful.

Can fearful thoughts touch this peace?

(Let me know if you have any problem finding this peace.)

You are also bothered by a lingering “undercurrent of assumption” (good phrase) that seems to color things. Is it a problem?

Look, I’m all about finding out if something is a problem or not. You know me, I don’t care about the lingo or the non-dual playbook – I just want to know, is it making you suffer? So, whatever is “real” about your “true nature,” or the “sense” of “you,” or the awareness, or the lingering sense of “I” – none of it makes any difference.

It’s not a problem to have a sense of you. It’s only a problem to see thoughts arising and not recognize that they are fleeting and leave the background peace untouched. None of the rest of this matters. Do you recognize a thought as a thought (yes, you do), and do you recognize that thoughts are all fleeting, and only real relative to each other (yes, you do)? That’s all you need to know. Your sense of being a person in a body with people you care about – all of that will stay. It’s not a problem.

There’s more. Seeing that the background peace is untouched is only the first part of it. The next part is this: if the first part is true, that means that nothing is ever any different from anything else. Nothing is touched, nothing is changed. It means that there is nothing to improve. It means that you can’t get any better. It means your life can’t get any better, in any way. It’s the end. Now you can just live, carefree.

It’s a load off, if you get my drift. Let me know what comes up.

Q: Thank you for the reply. Here are the observations based on your questions.

Suffering is totally created in thought. Something happens, say I'm in a car accident, and that's just what it is, period. Then after the fact thoughts come in and say, oh no, my car is ruined, my insurance is going to go through the roof, I'm not going to have a vehicle to get to work, my wife is going to kill me, etc., etc., etc. The suffering boils up as thought after the fact. That's clear, yet seeing how it works hasn't necessarily made it stop.

A: And isn’t, “That's clear, yet seeing how it works hasn't necessarily made it stop,” just another one of those after-the-fact commentaries? It’s no different. It’s no more urgent or real than “Oh no my wife will be mad.” What is is just what is, even this seeking and wanting suffering to stop is what is, and the commentary boils up independently. See?

Q: No matter what seems to be happening, thought is what gives the color and meaning. In fact there can't be any meaning without thought. The world I see is only a so called world because of thought. The "Sean" identity is also a thought, or a group of persistent thoughts, or a recollection of thoughts.

The ego is noticed to assert itself in thoughts, it is noticed how a motivation will come up to say something and then that motivation is seen as a subtle attempt to assert the Sean image as someone who is intelligent, skillful, caring, etc., or the other way around, as someone who is not this or not that. It seems really a constant thought current moving around the construction and shaping of the image of Sean. The entirety of the Sean identity is built on thoughts.

A: Good. You don’t have to do anything about that. It just goes on like that. A bundle of thoughts doing its thing. Like a bunch of 1s and 0s.

Q: As it relates to loved ones, there is a fear or caring of what might happen to them, wanting to make sure they are safe and healthy and happy. Caring isn't a problem except when something seems to provoke fear about it, like they are going somewhere and there is a risk, then the thoughts overflow with what-if's.

A: Caring and fear both pass. Are you saying that when you’re caring, it’s okay, but when that turns into fear, it’s not? Can you say, this feeling is okay, but that one is not? Isn’t that a lot of work, all that pushing and pulling? But it’s easy when you see that feelings all pass, and you don’t have to push or pull any of them. You can just leave them alone.

Q: Yes, this is also all thought but at the time it seems to take over, seems to cause anxiety. No, the anxiety in itself isn't a problem either, but if something should happen then there would be a lot of bad feelings, grief, regret...

A: Now you’re having fear of future feelings! Fear of fear. Yeah, we do that. But see it for what it is. And so what if there is grief, regret? What do they do? What’s to shun about grief? What’s to shun about regret? They pass, don’t they? You can leave them alone, and they fade on their own.

Q: ...maybe wondering if I could have done something different, why did this have to happen, you know, the fear of death stuff. There really isn't a fear of death for me, but it really boils down to a fear of death for my loved ones.

A: And then, so what? It’s fear. It comes and goes. It comes, which is seen clearly, and then it goes, which is also seen clearly. Then fear of future fear comes, and that goes, too. All of that is seen clearly.

Q: Examining this as objectively as possible, my loved ones are only as such because of thoughts. Thoughts say that these organisms or things or objects or "other people" are meaningful. The personalities and appearance of loved ones is totally colored by thought. From moment to moment there is a basic awareness of or looking at whatever is happening, and then thoughts come in and color it and provide the meaning and descriptions of relationships, etc.

A: Exactly.

Q: You mention a background of peace. When I think of peace there are all sorts of things that come up. You seem to be saying that peace is the absence of the idea of a problem even if thoughts are there doing what they do. In the moment there is no problem, however "if" something bad happened then it seems there would be a problem in that moment, albeit totally thought-generated.

A: You already told me in the example about the car accident, that the event itself was no problem.

Q: This background of constant awareness is noticed and then on top of that or inside of that the thoughts come and provide the commentary. That somehow seems to be significant and I've heard much talk or pointers about it but I'm not sure how it relates to all of this.

A: Don’t worry about it. It will become clear.

Now, is any of this a problem? You have to find out if you really have a problem, don’t you? Do you really need “peace” or anything of the sort, unless there is a problem you’re trying to fix with peace? So, find out if you have a problem.

Do you have a problem? 

Q: No – no problem can ever be found outside of thought, even if the worst case scenario happened. And the thoughts that say there is a problem aren't even a problem because they don't really do anything except cause so-called bad feelings. And even the so-called bad feelings are only bad because thought says so, you know – they are relative, it is learned behavior to call them that.

I guess the expectation of the search is that there will be an understanding that these "other people" are not separate, so nothing bad can happen to them. That seems to be an expectation placed there in thought, too.

As I was writing that, something said, even the idea of separate people can only be a thought. The idea that something bad could happen can only be a thought. Everything that comes as a thought is learned behavior. I don't know if that is an insight or just repeating something I've read, but it is pretty obvious that I can't know or believe anything unless I buy into the thoughts.

A: That’s excellent. Now what?

Shall we go back to the beginning? You said that the idea of a “Sean” was still there. Now, do you still see that as a problem?

Is it a problem for the idea of a “Sean” to be there?

There are all kinds of stories out there and expectations about how “this” is going to be, how “awakening” is going to feel – that somehow there will be no distinction between self and others, permanent bliss, etc. Forget it. It’s all bullshit. It’s all stories of thoughts that come and pass. Forget all of it. Just look within your own experience, and find out if you have a problem. Isn’t that the whole point?

Is there a problem?

Q: Yes, it's clear that there isn't ever a problem outside of thought. And the fear-thought or feelings aren't a problem either – they come and go. Something is there while these thoughts and feelings come and go. That something isn't really ever affected by the thoughts or feelings. It's like a little mirror that is just watching it all. That mirror isn't Sean. It sees the Sean-story. It watches the Sean-story as it seems to evolve. It watches as the Sean-story is constructed.

There is the feeling of sort of being stuck between belief in the story and freedom from the story. If even Sean is only a story, who is watching it? Who is here watching all of this happen? The idea of peace seems to have evolved to be just the knowing that these stories all come and go and never really do anything. Even being stuck is just a story.

The non-duality that I have read points to knowing what you are. If it is all thought-stories, how can I ever know what I am? Wouldn't anything that could possibly come in understanding or insight just be more thought-story? It seems that even the one who would understand is just a story. A story of wanting to understand.

Something just said, the mind is a trap or a prison. Everywhere we look, the entire life is nothing but a story that we can't get out of. Anything that comes up and everything we know is just a thought-story. But we can't get out of it. We can't stop it unless thinking stops. I can't really know anything real, everything is a mind translation or projection. It is like a prison or a dream that I can't awake from.

A: Everything you just wrote is a story. Anything you say to defend or elaborate on it will be more story. Anything you try to fix about it will be more story. Any notion that you are trapped within the story is more story – sophisticated story, but story nonetheless.

It’s all story.

Now...is there any problem?

I didn’t even say “Is there any problem outside of thought,” did I? I just said, is there a problem?

Is there? Look and see.

Q: At this moment there is no problem, in thought or otherwise. At some point anger or fear may happen and there will be a problem. If you ask that question at that time the answer will be yes, there is a problem. Yes, it will be a story, a bodily sensation or feeling, and a thought obsession about the story. Knowing it is just a story and knowing it isn't really a problem doesn't seem to help at the time it's happening.

A: Help what?

I know I’m not going the direction you want or expect. That’s the whole point. Going the direction you expect will only take you to places you’ve been, and that’s around and around in the story some more. We’re going a different way to play a trick on the mind. Just try it. It might pay off.

So I’m being totally serious when I ask you this: Knowing that it isn’t really a problem doesn’t seem to help what?

Help not have a sensation in the body?

Help not have a bad feeling arise?

Help not have a thought that says, “This is suffering”?

Help not have a thought that says, “I don’t like this”?

Help not have several thoughts in a row that say, “I don’t like this”?

What exactly is the help you seek?

Q: I guess there is an expectation that once non-duality is figured out, or the truth of what I am is seen, or whatever, then there will be no more reason to have these feelings. It will be clear that there is no separation, hence no more bad feelings or negative thoughts.

The answer to your question is yes, all of the above, I guess. The anxiety comes and goes, but it is based on some understanding of the world as I see it. If it is not really that way, then maybe the anxiety is based on a mistaken understanding. I can't say that for sure at this point, hence the anxiety or anger continues.

I guess it all comes down to wanting to not feel bad, having a proper understanding of the truth of reality, having peace. That is the help I seek.

A: You answered yes to all the above questions. So let’s reiterate what you are saying:

You want to not have some particular sensation in the body.

You want to not have a bad feeling arise.

You want to not have a thought that says, “This is suffering.”

You want to not have a thought that says, “I don’t like this.”

You want not have several thoughts in a row that say, “I don’t like this.” 

Do you think those things are possible? Is it possible to not have a thought that says, “I don’t like this”?

Q: Thanks for your diligence and patience..... :)

Yes, I do think it's possible, from what I take from the non-duality discussion, if it is clear that there is no separation and all is one, then the obsessive fear and anger thoughts shouldn't arise, they just wouldn't make any sense. The mind seems to act according to its undercurrent of beliefs - if the underlying belief or conviction is that what I am is all of it or there is no separation, then these thoughts make no sense. The thoughts seem to be a symptom of a misunderstanding.

It is clear that there is really no such thing as Sean. It's just a mental projection or a belief. Sean seems to be a false identification with this thing that is showing up, this body and these thoughts. The identification seems to be the hingepin. I get that the anger and fear are habits and that they aren't really a problem. But it just seems that if things were seen clearly like you and others seem to have seen, then there would just be peace, and the thoughts would have no basis to come. Like an obsession that just falls apart. I guess there is an expectation of peace and contentment at whatever is happening, and a steadiness or unshakability at whatever happens, good or bad.

Something just said, all the thoughts of fear and anger always refer to Sean who doesn't exist. It is always about my family or my job or my life. It is a constant reference to me, Sean, who doesn't exist apart from more thoughts. Just thoughts chasing their tail. It is really a selfish reference. I don't want anything bad to happen to my family. Why? Because then I would feel bad! Wow. I want everything to be good or happen the way I want, and when it doesn’t happen that way, anger arises.

Not sure where that came from, but it seems that the idea of Sean provides the reality to these other things that are obsessed over or from which these anger or anxiety thoughts stem. Without a Sean, is there really a Sean's family, Sean's job, etc.? I'm interested to hear your feedback on this. I hope I answered your question.

He sent more before I could answer:

It seems that mind is inescapable. No matter what comes up, it is mind. No matter what color or commentary, and it seems that it is all just color and commentary, it is mind giving it the quality. Mind is seemingly seeing the futility of itself and the inability to get out of itself. Any suffering or seeking or happiness or sadness or contentment or anxiety or good stuff or bad stuff is only a quality of mind itself, or maybe a translation by mind of what seems to be going on.

When I say “I,” the mind is being referred to. The activity of translation and applying identifications is what the personality seems to be the ego. The patterns seem to repeat, which give the sense of some sort of continuity of a static individual there doing it. That individual is also a coloration in mind.

No matter where I look I cannot seem to get outside of the fact that it is all mind doing it and saying it. Thoughts have seemed to slow down seemingly because there seems to be nowhere to go to find an answer. Any answer can only possibly be more of the mind's translations. It seems that no answer to any question on spirituality or whatever can be found in the mind.

Even wanting to get out of this situation is more mind. “How do I stop it” is mind. “When will it end” is more mind. “The mind is a problem or not” is mind. “That is a woman and she is my wife and I want her to be happy and healthy and safe” is mind. “I love my children” is mind. Sean's life is mind. Sean is mind. Life is mind. Mind is mind.

It's a dead-end, no matter what turn is taken. No further questions can be posited without engaging the mind or without it being an idea in the mind. Even the idea of engaging the mind is mind.

A: Very good. How can I add anything to this? In these two emails, you’ve boiled all the contents of the pot away. It’s evaporated. There’s nothing else to discuss.

This is it. Any thoughts of “This can't be what they're talking about,” “I’m not quite done yet,” “Identification might return,” “I might lose this,” “I still feel a sense of a separate I,” all of these things are just more of the same – mind. You put it this way: “The activity of translation and applying identifications...” Yes. That’s all that’s ever going on.

Can I be of any further assistance?

Q: The question comes up – where is the peace spoken of in non-duality? If it is all seen as mind or just mind knowing its own futility, then where is the peace? It's inescapable, which means that the idea of peace or the idea of not-peace are the same thing, really. This doesn't seem to be a recipe for peace, it seems to be a recipe for insanity. Who knows, maybe they are the same thing. Knowing that the world is a dream of mind but we can't escape. Does peace come from resting in the futility?

Before I could send this, something said, who wants to rest or who wants peace? The idea of one who wants peace is nothing but mind. Getting or finding peace is mind. If I got peace it would be a product of mind, too. It seems there is nowhere to go. The whole entire story of Sean wanting peace through non-duality is nothing but mind created.

Is that it? There seems to be nowhere else to go. How does life go on seemingly trapped in the bottle of mind?

A: Are you okay? If you find yourself in a place that feels trapped, scared, depressed, resigned, bored, hopeless, helpless, or anything else, just look – isn’t it the same as everything else – just mind, just story?

> “How does life go on seemingly trapped in the bottle of mind?”

I’m thinking you have probably answered that question for yourself already. Or do you need me to address it?

Please do let me hear from you. I’m a little concerned.

Q: The only thing that makes sense is that Peace is the default state. Peace is like the water which isn't disturbed, yet when the waves come they are not different from the water. Peace is conceptualized into some feel-good state or something that is arrived at. Peace is seen as some sort of blissful or good state. Instead, Peace seems to be the absence of wanting a specific state, or the absence of having a problem with whatever the current state is. True peace could only be, being ok with whatever is happening at the moment and having no regrets or anxieties. I guess being fully in the moment, whatever that means.

No, peace really isn't the absence of wanting, it seems deeper somehow, more like it seems to be the recognition of the wanting or not wanting is ok as it is. Peace seems to be the default situation and then all the other stuff happens on top. When there seems to be a lack of peace, it's always the thoughts making waves in the water.

I think the expectation is that peace will come as a feel-good state. It now seems that peace is the default state and it doesn't matter what other state comes or goes. It doesn't seem to be affected by the waves of thoughts. Does the water care if a pebble is dropped and it leaves a wake? Is the water disturbed? I don't know. Is this going in the right direction? Is peace just the default state and then the other stuff comes and goes? Is recognition of this default state really knowing who I am?

I feel like I'm rambling and going off the tracks with this but it is just coming up for me. Something just said, the mind has to happen in something and does that "something" get disturbed by the thoughts? What is that something that the mind happens in? It seems that the looking within makes it possible to see the stumbling blocks or concepts or ideas that have been held and are really just assumptions. Constant references to mental assumptions. It seems that seeing all of this as mind sort of sweeps up many of these assumptions and provides a replacement for that undercurrent. Then against that, these other assumptions sort of bounce off because they just don't make a lot of sense.

A: Yes, this is it. Good job. Your description is wonderful and thorough. I have nothing to add.

It’s fun to watch your insights happen in real time! I’m talking about this:

>Something just said, the mind has to happen in something and does that "something" get disturbed by the thoughts?

It’s not necessary or possible to go any further with trying to know what that “something” is, because anything you can say or think about it is just more concepts – right? Just knowing that it is never disturbed – which you now know in your own experience – is all you need. Now you can just take the brakes off and coast. Nothing else to do.

Nothing else needs to be answered. Any thoughts you once had about needing to know “who you are,” or needing to have a feel-good experience of peace – all those thoughts and desires are now seen as simple movement across the backdrop of undisturbed “something.”

Really good job, Sean. You really stayed focused and stuck with it. It’s been easy to work with you. I’m always here if anything else comes up.

Some time passed, and then I received:

Q: Noticing this background seems to be intermittent. It seems so intangible or impossible to pin down. When noticed, it seems to be just a stillness, but that feels conceptual. The thoughts still come, albeit without the same conviction.

You said “Any thoughts you once had about needing to know ‘who you are,’ or needing to have a feel-good experience of peace – all those thoughts and desires are now seen as simple movement across the backdrop of undisturbed ‘something’.” I can't say that's my actual experience.

The thoughts and desires really aren't seen that way. The so-called backdrop isn't obvious, and when I'm sort of lost in the thoughts, the suffering stuff or anger or fear still comes. Then later there might be a recollection of the concept of the backdrop, but it seems hard to find most of the time. The obvious thing is that thoughts are seen. I think that is what has become obvious as always happening. Thoughts are seen as they happen instead of being identified with (that seems subtle but I'm sure you'll know what I mean).

The only thing that really makes sense in trying to tie it all together is that what is seeing thoughts is what thoughts are happening in. And then that seer of thoughts, whatever that means, is undisturbed by the thoughts. In other words the seer of thoughts is the ocean and the thoughts are the waves on top.

There is a mixed feeling that something is still sticking as an identification or something, because you're obviously satisfied with my earlier answers yet it really doesn't seem any different. Things still bug me, I still fear over some things somewhat obsessively (like the safety of my children), anger still comes. It is clear that this is nothing but thoughts about thoughts, and that even wanting this to stop is more thoughts, and there is no real problem in any of it, and the idea of Sean is just more thoughts and stories. That's actually pretty clear.

It's very radical to the normal way of thinking, but it's pretty clear that there isn't really a so-called person because that was just always a belief that crumbled upon looking at it. There is just this body and these thoughts going on and things just happen.  So why don't I feel any better?

A: Who said you’re going to feel any better?

Isn’t this what life is – feel better, feel worse, feel better again, feel worse again, think a good thought, think a bad thought, have a good experience, have a bad experience, and so on? Have a drink and feel happy, lose your buzz and feel sad. Moods, substances, brain chemicals, hormones, world events – all these things change and we just go along being tossed around by it. This is what life is. You think you’re going to change that, and somehow permanently “feel better”?

So let’s say you are going along through your day, and the thought “Why don’t I feel any better?” comes along. Do you think it’s a problem to have that thought? Does that thought stay, or pass? Does another thought come, another feeling, another experience, another mood?

Is there any thought or feeling that you really need to wish away? Or can it all just be, as it is?

Is “feeling bad” a problem?

Q: Well, yes actually, that is the expectation at least. And it bears out somewhat in my experience, as I mentioned in a previous email. Once the so-called person was questioned and really seen as just a belief, many of the self-centered thoughts stopped and haven't returned. The whole pursuit of happiness thing in my job and finances and all that just sort of fell to the side because it was pretty clear that they were just trying to keep this image of Sean going. That was seen pretty clearly, and once seen, the thoughts really didn't have any more grip. So that entire Sean-story doesn't play anymore.

But that doesn't really seem to be the case for other aspects of life, like with the concern and anxiety for my family, some residual or habitual anger, some annoyances. It seems that although the reality of Sean is obviously a facade, the reality of the rest of the world is still solidly believed in. I guess that part of experience hasn't been fully investigated? The expectation is that if the world which includes my family were seen as false as the Sean character has been, just more stories, then the thoughts wouldn't have any more grip either there.

Something just said, but isn't all this other stuff still Sean-story? Sean's thoughts about family or world needing to lose their grip.  LOL

I guess the answer to my own question is that it just feels different. The absence of the drama about Sean's life from a job or finances or friendship perspective feels good, like an ease or a lack of worry or a lack of investment in the story. The family stuff, or the stuff that really gets under my skin, seems closer and maybe more difficult to disassociate or see through the story.

Something just said, the identification with the job and finances and friendships weren't as strongly identified with as is the family and daily comfort or agitation stuff. Maybe the stronger identifications are harder to see through the story? Anyway, thank you again for your persistence and patience. I feel like I'm sort of thinking out loud in some of these emails. Maybe that's necessary?

A: Now your Sean-story is that you have half of it in place, and everything is fine there. And it’s just this other part, and that part’s not cooperating. And when you can get that part to cooperate, everything will be fine and you’ll feel good.

So when everything is fine, and you feel good, then what?

Q: Good question. I guess then there will be complete ease, not just ease that is less-often disturbed. It's really fear of death. That's really what it amounts to. Fearing that something bad will happen.  Not for me, but for my loved ones.

When I investigate these feelings about my loved ones, I'm really projecting the individual person thing on them. If there is no such thing as a Sean or a separate person here, then why can't I see that there cannot be a separate person who is my wife or my children? That seems to be a habit in itself. Identifying them as separate people when the Sean-story is clearly false. That really doesn't make any sense at all.

They are just innocent and need protection. I feel compelled to protect them, and that feels instinctive and not so much a mistaken belief. Maybe the body is just doing its job, being protective. I often wonder if a daddy lion feels this way when he looks at his cubs. Obviously a lion isn't obsessing that his cubs might wander into some danger, yet if threatened the lion will react as if programmed to do so. Maybe that's the same way here.

In that light it's not really a problem at all. Just life. Not Sean's life, just life doing what is does.

Not sure what else to say. Good stopping point I guess.

A: Don’t wimp out now just when it’s getting good.

Suppose your wife dies or one of your children gets a horrible disease. What is changed? Suppose something horrible happens to one of them that you should have been there to prevent, but weren’t.

Take your fears all the way to the extreme, worst case scenario, and find out what is changed by that happening.

What is changed? What is affected by any of that happening?

Some feelings of Sean are changed. Sean would have bad feelings for a long time. Bad feelings would arise in Sean. And sometimes good feelings would arise in Sean. Feelings and thoughts would arise and pass as always. Some good, some bad.

What else would be affected by these events?

Nothing. Right here, right now, there are some thoughts, feelings, and experiences arising. And the background is never changed. All of your worst fears can come true, and will the background ever be changed by it?

When the worst has happened, and you look again, is the background still here? Has it been changed? Has it been changed by the events, by your thoughts, by world chaos, by anyone’s death?

Your fear of the events is based on a fear that something will happen – that something elemental is changed by them happening. Find out if that is true.

Will anything elemental be changed by the worst thing that you can think of happening?

Will anything besides your thoughts change? And aren’t they going to change anyway?

Q: What is changed is that they would be sick, injured or dead. They might have suffered greatly. They might no longer be here. I'm not sure what you mean by elemental. To the world at large, nothing would be different. People die all the time. To my world everything elemental would change. It is true at a deeper level that they weren't there at one point, then they were. Now there is an attachment to them that isn't there for most other people. If someone known casually died there might be sadness, but not the heart-shattering that would be there if one of my closest family were to die.

Yet I admit, the entire impact would be in my thoughts and feelings. Nothing else, really, would change. Maybe daily activities would change like picking them up at school or whatever. But the suffering aspect of it would be entirely based in thoughts and feelings or thoughts about feelings or thoughts about thoughts. Yes, I would feel really bad. That's about it. Seems very cold.

A: I have to admit, at this point I have no idea what you want, or what this discussion is even about.

Q: Ok, maybe a short question to the point is due. What does knowing that I am awareness or blankness or that unchanging background have to do with not suffering or seeing that all is one? Suffering still happens, albeit in mind only. The world still looks like separate things, albeit only to the mind.

A: I’ve never told you to notice that you are awareness or blankness. If you read our whole exchange over again, you’ll see that I never once asked you to do that. It will take you around in circles. But you can stop going in circles by answering a few pointed questions that, when stuck with, undermine the whole construct of “I” – and then there is no "I" needing to notice anything.

You can read non-duality all day long and it just won’t sink in, because there is always this “I” that thinks it’s going to gain from the non-duality. That path is infinite. There is no end to the needs (including spiritual needs) of the “I,” and they will continue until the day you die. The only way out is to pull the belief in the person up by the roots, and then it all vanishes, even the “yeah, but”s.

What’s it going to be?

Q: I'm all for the direct approach. I'm trying to stay as close to answering your questions as I can. I thought that I'd seen through the "person" but apparently these concepts keep coming up. I appreciate your diligence and directness. I'm open to whatever question you have.

A: You began your correspondence with me saying that your problem is the thoughts that continue to arise – angry thoughts, fearful thoughts about your family, etc. – i.e. undesirable thoughts.

Can a thought hurt you?
Can a thought kill you?
Can a thought kill your wife?
Can a thought put your kids in harm’s way?
Can a thought remove your kids from harm’s way?

Can a thought do anything?
Can a thought change anything?
Does it matter what the thought is?

Does the thought “I am happy” do anything?
Does the thought “I am sad” do anything?
Does the thought “that really pisses me off” do anything?
Does the thought “I know that I am the awareness” do anything?

If you are confronted with the death of a loved one, and you are devastated, does the thought “I am just fucking devastated” do anything?

Does the thought “that thought makes me uncomfortable” do anything?

Does the thought “I am uncomfortable” do anything?

Does the thought “I want to avoid having a thought like that” do anything?

When a thought is gone, what are you left with?

I’m not interested in hearing what your answers are. Just think about these things.

Does the thought “Annette seems to be getting tired of me” do anything?

I didn’t hear from Sean for quite a while. And then:

Q: Thanks for the email. I have spent a lot of time pondering your email. I chased the thoughts around and around as you suggested to let them play out and see if they really mattered. They continuously loop back on themselves, over and over. I cannot find any meaning whatsoever in anything that isn't mind-made.

It is clear that thoughts come up, then the feelings/emotions, then more thoughts about it being bad, then more thoughts about not wanting the thoughts, then more thoughts about how some realization should make the thoughts stop. It is just a never-ending thought-train. The whole entire existence has been nothing but a bunch of meaningless stories, even the spirituality stuff and our email conversation. It is clear that I define myself in this process. "Sean" and "my life" and "my family" is created in this thought-train.

If these thoughts are just seen as only relative to other thoughts and really have nothing at all to do with what I am in essence, there is totally no problem, ever. As you said, the very definition of "problem" is just more relative thoughts. In fact I cannot ever define myself without using thoughts. There is only what is going on at present which includes thoughts. That's really all I can ever say with any accuracy or without making up a bunch of stories about it all (and that's also another story).

Any realization that I might have could only be more telling stories. It's like, once the whole thing is seen as thought-stories, nothing can ever even happen that isn't more thought. Nothing can ever really be a problem. I can't describe anything without it. I can't have a problem without it. I can't even be "Sean" without the thought-stories.

The mental swirling has totally lost its energy. The wind has gone out of the sails. There can be no more questions, ever. There is literally nothing else to talk about.

Thank you very much for your insistence on rejecting the bullshit, Annette.  

A: Well well well well! You could knock me over with a feather! I kind of thought you had gotten caught back up in the swirl of thought and that I just might never hear from you again. Needless to say, I'm really delighted at what I'm reading here.

Please feel free to keep in touch with me if you need any validation about what you've discovered.

Good job, Sean. I'm so glad you stuck with it. You did great.